Last-minute WWDC25 rumors + Our predictions! (CultCast #702)

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[Music] good evening and welcome to the cult the best 30 plus minute Apple conversation
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you're going to hear all week long i will be your host today Driffin Jones
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joining me today is our managing editor and not the only San Franciscan joining
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us today Lewis Wallace hello hey it's great to be here once again i'm very excited about the other
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guests very excited also joining us although his title is editor-inchief I often have to re-edit
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articles of mine that he's edited to fix the typos he's added leander Canny rejoins the show welcome back hello
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[Music] also joining us I genuinely believe he will live longer than me because he is
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in such peak physical condition graham Bower is joining us welcome kind words indeed thank you Griffin
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am I done introducing guests no also joining us it's his partner in crime Charlie Surell welcome hey I was hoping
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that Graeme's introduction was for me until you got to the physical fitness part
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all right fair enough this week we have an absolute blockbuster of a show we're
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going to talk about uh Apple intelligence features that are coming up but don't worry we have exciting stuff too uh rumors about Mac OS iOS 19
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possibly iOS 26 who knows anymore the A20 chip that's coming years down the
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line and our WWDC 26 no WWDC 25
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predictions see it's already started it's a confusing thing exactly
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but before that we would like to thank our sponsor of the show summer is here
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don't you kick it off with your favorite topic in the world Apple intelligence tell us what's coming so intelligent uh
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yeah last year at WWC Apple couldn't shut up about Apple intelligence overhyped suite of AI tools and since uh
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Apple's engineers spent most of last year finishing and shipping the initial Apple intelligence features announced last year some of them they didn't have
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time to focus on big new AI features for this year's updates however we we reportedly will see a handful of minor
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updates to Apple Intelligence next week at WWDC2 buckle up because these are big
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apple will update its Shortcuts app with Apple Intelligence according to our
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favorite source Bloomberg's Mark German who says quote "The new version will let consumers create actions using Apple
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intelligence models." This would be a significant upgrade if you could actually you know speak in plain
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language what you want and Apple intelligence could create a shortcut automation for you and that's true
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because that app is a little thorny sometimes uh let's see another thing is
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developers will be able to use Apple Foundation model APIs directly uh that
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would let developers uh integrate thirdparty models into their apps or or no sorry they wouldn't have to integrate
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third party marties if they could just use a convenient API provided by Apple
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uh maybe this one will be well documented you never know developer joke for developers in our audience are they
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not well documented no no oftentimes you just have the name of the the the
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function or the API and no explanation of what it actually does or how it works so you just trust Apple and plug it in
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okay great news uh let's see uh I'm not so sure this was coming like immediately
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at this thing but uh there's this thing called Project Malbury it's Apple's code name for an AI coach that will analyze
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data in the health app to provide personalized recommendations that actually sounds helpful and interesting
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um there's also supposedly a new Siri feature dubbed knowledge what a change up that is uh
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this is a supposedly a tool that can pull data from the open web just like
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chat GPT does wouldn't that be shocking you wouldn't have to like maybe open your iPhone to get the answer uh
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supposedly this would answer open-ended questions you ask Siri by searching online re this is just a revolution in
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the making uh processing the top answers and reading you a summary of what it finds unfortunately instead of saying
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here's on the web it'll actually tell you what's on the web right instead of here's a link you open your iPhone and
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read it uh let's see i think this was a little bit of snark uh from the writer
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and I think that writer might have been you Griffin uh unfortunately Robbie Walker is supposedly leading the
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development of knowledge and he's the very same person who fumbled the ball in Siri before Mike Rockwell took over in
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the notsodistant past uh and uh rumor has it that the knowledge project is
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already quote plagued by some of the same problems that delayed the Siri overhaul isn't that depressing oh no
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this is depressing uh German also notes that Apple will quote quietly rebrand several existing features in apps like
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Safari and Photos as AI powered possibly to make it seem like the Apple Intelligence team has been more
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productive than it actually has there's a lot of snark in that story there Griffin that's kind of Is that
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fair i think it is fair because uh if you've tried using Apple intelligence you know what a complete joke it is so
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maybe it'll get slightly better this The thing is though I think it's quite reasonable to rebadge those features because that there was a ton of AI stuff
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in like iOS like you know the amazing thing where like the photos app can recognize plants and animals and stuff
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like that that's an AI feature and it just gets completely overlooked because Apple introduced this Apple intelligence
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brand which they apply to their new set of features and somehow I think the marketing team at Apple screwed up there
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because they allowed the narrative to be that these are the only AI features that they have and so I I I think they're now
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retroactively trying to go back and say "Well well hey we we've actually been doing AI features for a while." So I don't think it's like a bait and switch
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to cover up that they've really done nothing over the last 12 months i think I think I think it's more like that they
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screwed up by sort of making some things Apple intelligence and other things not
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and it's quite arbitrary like why are Gen Moji Apple intelligence but then something like the the recognition of
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stuff in the photos app isn't Apple intelligence and so to me that that's more of a kind of marketing rethink to
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be consistent in their terminology that that's how I took it and those other features were added back when it was
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still called machine learning that's what I was going to say ai right and machine learning isn't so hot on Wall Street is it
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ai though oh my god though is that if Apple retroactively changes those other features to be
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called Apple Intelligence then it's like well so I can run Apple intelligence features on my phone that's too old for Apple intelligence like how that is an
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open question to me uh so so you Graham and Charlie in I believe you're in
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Barcelona you just got access to Apple Intelligence in iOS 18.4 what are you using it for because I'm a Brit abroad
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then I my Apple account is a UK account so I got some of those things some of
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the forbidden features in the EU i I got them i got them sooner transformational
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right transformation transformed your life i just switched them all off well actually I had them all disabled anyway
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you you know that the feature that you mentioned uh there uh that I am looking forward to is uh for the automations and
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using like natural language to to describe an automation i've uh I'm I'm a keen vibe coder you know i've been like
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v coding there's all a ton of stuff I needed to fix on this fitness app that I develop and a lot of the code is really
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out of date and I didn't know how to fix this stuff i'm not very good at coding and uh I I'm using this new tool now
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called cursor AI um still waiting for Apple to ship Swift Assist which should do the same thing but cursor AI you can
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basically tell it what you want it to do in your Xcode project and it just does it for you and it's amazing it works
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well it it actually works it fixed loads of things that I've been pulling my hair out wait I don't have hair because I
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pulled it out to to try and fix this stuff and it did and I something like I
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can't be bothered to learn how to use the automations app i just can't be bothered with it i mean there might be useful things but I can't be bothered if
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I can just tell it what I want I think I would use it a lot more and I'm pretty technical so I I just think that you
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know it doesn't sound like a big feature but I think it might turn out to be a massive feature because it means that
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everyone can use the automations app without actually having to shortcuts app
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without actually having to spend ages figuring out how to use it i agree if it works I think this is the kind of thing
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that uh LLMs are going to be really good at forget kind of search because it's a
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disaster and is is spoiling the world or being or using it you know kids using uh
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chat GBT to write all of their essays and things this is a nightmare but with but having much tighter stuff like the
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photos recognition things that you talked about earlier or things like this it's perfect because it's a limited sort
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of set of things that it's has to do and it can use its interpretation skills it's not having to go out and like make
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uh find uh facts on the web and then lie to you about them it's and I I I I've
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been using an app called well briefly used an app called Substage which puts a little window underneath underneath your finder window and then you can hook it
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up to a uh an LLM of your choice you can I'm using a local open source one because I don't want any of my stuff
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going out to chat gpt and you just type in you say you type into the bottom like select all of the WAV files in this
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folder i mean that's easy to do anyway but then you can say "Okay now convert them all to MP3s." And you just type it
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and it works it out and it shows you it makes a little terminal script and uh like a terminal thing and it shows it to
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you so you if you want so you can check that it's not doing anything super dodgy and then it then it runs it and it's it
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just works really well for simple things like this because it's fairly straightforward quite like it it really
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means that you can do all kinds of things right there in the finder that would be a pain even if you even if you
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know how to use the terminal mhm so what is the difference about using that AI feature that you're okay with whereas
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you you're morally opposed to Apple intelligence and refuse to enable it uh my problem is the uh there's a few
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things there's the ethical problems of train of the training uh then there's the power use and then
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there's the privacy of sending i mean Apple intelligence I trust more than the
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others with privacy but I was going to say don't you trust Apple not so much as I used to uh you know with Get him off
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this podcast right now i know he's a hater you were coming from
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black sheep well I just you know as it gets as they get worse and worse and the
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the priorities are more obviously shifting in the direction of money rather than uh I obviously it's a big
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company and they've always wanted money uh but now the priority seems to be more
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that and less the other things that they were always good at and that's why that's where the lack of trust comes i
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mean also if you you look at the sort of phoning home if you have any kind of apps on your um you know like little
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snitch things like this there's all kinds of weird contact thing things that Apple is doing when it says it's not
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things that you can't block uh Jeff Johnson the guy who writes uh the stop
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the madness extension is always got something to say about this and he's always finding always finding nasty
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things that are things that where um the OS this phoneing home anyway I am not
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against like machine learning stuff it's just it's the AI and this kind of nonsense
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it's you know the chat GPT the how LLMs are used for the stuff I mentioned before you know bad web search bad
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writing bad pictures ripping off people's work without asking wholesale
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that kind of stuff it's but I'm com you know I see good I see a possible future
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in it it's just at the moment it's a mess that's fair leander are you using
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Apple any Apple intelligence features or do any of these sound interesting to you yeah uh I use visual intelligence um the
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visual lookup I use that I've been using that more and more um that's really kind of amazing i mean some of the stuff that
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comes up with is is astonishing you know like it's amazingly accurate i I was interested in a piece of furniture the
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other day and it identified it immediately and perfectly i was really surprised it's really good for plant
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identification good for insects you know weird bugs and stuff that I find around
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uh I think we're using it for bugs that sounds cool good well yeah mostly for my mom my mom had these weird um creepy
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crawlers in her kitchen and I and I uh I used it to identify them and it worked it really did it was And it's way better
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than Oh I can't remember now some um uh I can't remember okay I just
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plantly lavi something completely harmless but
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um and that's a that's about you know like the Gemmoji a little bit um I'm not really a moji person anyway
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so um you know I haven't used it that much the writing tools every now and again um and that's about it really i'm
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trying to think well like you know but as as Graeme was saying before machine learning and AI you know has been
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integrated into all almost everything right across all Apple software i think it's almost in everything like Face ID
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you know it's ability to recognize if your beard grows or your face changes you know like um it's all over the place
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oh I've been using priority not uh the the notification summaries they're kind of funny they they can be pretty amusing
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how they how they really mess stuff up mhm um and the new priority stuff in the
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email inbox you know that that works okay that's not too bad well do you want to tell us about Mac OS then
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yeah so next week um Mac OS is getting a a new name and uh it's rumored to be uh
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Mac OS Lake Tahoe which is named after a beautiful lake uh about 3 and a half
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four hours from here in San Francisco up in the Sierra Neadas um and uh it's it's
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a pretty good pretty good name i suppose I didn't use it before you know it's like one of the primary destinations here in Northern California everybody
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goes up there all winter for skiing so it's actually a horrible nightmare because the the traffic is just awful
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abysmal and of course it's like hard to find somewhere to stay and uh but it's a beautiful beautiful lake a wonderful
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wonderful part of California beautiful place to ride a bike around in fact there's a wonderful bike ride um all the
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way around the lake they do once a year for charity anyway so that apparently Lake Tahoe is the next one that's what we call it mac OS Tahoe and and this
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this apparently means it's a big deal right one of the things I hadn't picked up on before is is that Apple picks
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important places in California for big releases and unimportant places in California for small releases which is
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kind of insulting if you get a small release named after you I guess but that that's according to Gur's like power on
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newsletter he said that this was a an important location for an important update and I I that made me think back
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to what were the unimportant places in California that they had referred to like Seoa Big Su Sonoma
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i I' I've heard Californiaifornians say that Ventura is a pretty like middling area like it's okay but this is my
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favorite line from the from the article here the resort destination serves as quote a vacation destination and second
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home site for many Apple employees well uh famously um what's the name of
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that kleptomaniac um the CEO of Apple who uh was the CEO before Jobs took over
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Gilamelio alio right maniac
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well because he one of the first things he negotiated his executive package was uh as well as redoing the the executive
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suite we had a private bathroom just for him was getting a a loan for a massive compound up on Lake Tahoe and I think I
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might be wrong but I think it was the one they used um for the Godfather um the Godfather's compound that was on
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Lake Tahoe and it it was like I think he took a massive loan out apple gave him this super low interest loan to buy this
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compound and you know anyway that was what kind of what he was famous for in his he wasn't there for very long 500
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days I think or something like that didn't he also uh negotiate a 20th century uh 20th anniversary MAC for his
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part of his severance agree as a severance package up oh did he i don't know well he he definitely didn't win
18:16
out on that and that will not be running Mac OS Tahoe no so let's move on and talk about
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AirPods ios 19 may turn your AirPods into a remote camera button with iOS 18
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Apple introduced Apple introduced yes or no head gestures by nodding or shaking
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your head when you get an incoming phone ho phone call more importantly in iOS 18.1 uh AirPods Pro are now hearing aids
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well uh in the next version of iOS uh there'll be even more head gestures
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they'll be able to uh smart enough to detect when you fall asleep while wearing them and automatically pause
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audio playback that's just that's just great currently the only way to achieve this involves using sleep timers however
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automatic detection would be a more effective solution bringing back a feature from the AirPods
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era iOS 19 will supposedly let you use the AirPod stem as a camera control
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button so you can prop your iPhone up on a table and then use the uh AirPods as a
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remote shutter and uh this says it might work kind of like the camera control like I can I can imagine that being true
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because like the AirPods also have like the uh you know capacitive like sensing area that you can swipe your finger up
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and down although I'm not sure how well that would work if you can't see the screen of the phone you could always use
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uh volume ever since you were allowed to use the volume up and down buttons on the side of the iPhone to trigger the
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shutter you've been able to use remote ones as well which is what you're talking about right so I guess in a way
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it does make sense because you've got the volume controls on the AirPods Pro yeah bringing that back but if you've
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got an Apple Watch you'd always use the the Apple Watch to take your selfies right i think it's nobrainer well if
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you've got AirPods Pro but not an Apple Watch now you're all set who has who has AirPods Pro and not an Apple Watch the
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kids i was I want to ask on when you were reading that bit about nodding and shaking your head to answer calls does
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anyone actually use that feature i just can't imagine i have never used it no me
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neither no one No one ever calls me
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that's a problem too i I really I like the idea of the thing uh you know the shutting off the music
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as you're when you fall asleep but but what I really want is like uh some sort of feature that shoots it out of your
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ear so you don't wake up in the morning you know with a a sore it'll be just like the uh water ejection thing on
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Apple Watch cuz you fall asleep shoots it out aren't you afraid of swallowing it though what if you swallow in the
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middle of the night i did used to have I used to have nightmares of that all the
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time i'd like an iPad with iPad with an airbag on it so when you fall asleep and
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it falls down on your face it doesn't hit the bridge of your nose also good apple's really into safety so
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ever since they added like sleep tracking on the Apple Watch and they added like the special sleep mode where it can wake you up it's always bothered
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me that like it can it can wake you up but then it doesn't detect when you fall asleep again if you like you know shut
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off the alarm and then just immediately fall back asleep that when I used to use my Apple Watch for sleep tracking that
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actually got me a few times like it knows if I'm sleeping or not why don't Why don't you warn me
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yeah good point you better tell them to file that one as a as a you know a ticket yeah they'll totally Yeah they'll
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totally fix it mhm now I just need to fall asleep with with uh my Apple Watch
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and AirPods in my ears then it'll detect when I'm asleep and the Vision Pro in your head yep
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yep imagine imagine if you you have the Vision Pro as an alarm and it just like
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vibrates on your face i bet somebody does it's going to strobe you man
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just thousand watts it only works if you sleep for 2 hours or less so Charlie why
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don't you tell us about the Apple A20 chip yeah the A20 chip coming in the
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iPhone 18 18 and 18 Pro Max in uh uh
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2026 will be built on a 2nanmter process currently the A18 chip is on the second
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gen 3 nanometer process the A19 which is coming this year will be on the third gen n uh 3 nanometer process okay so
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that's the facts but the Mhm yeah that means everything on the chip is smaller
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which doesn't sound like much but uh it really is one of the things that makes a big jump in power efficiency and also
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speed because everything's closer together so there's less uh distance for the for things to travel and yet they
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just use a lot less power and apparently it's going to be 15% better performance and 30% greater power efficiency
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compared to the A19 which is the next one not the current one but that's the when the process jump is going to happen
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so that's cool and it shows really that I mean that's a pretty big jump apple's
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Apple silicon is always getting faster and faster but 15% at this stage you know the A 20
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that's 20 generations of of chips so you know the thing's getting on a bit and
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this is and it's still getting this much faster like year over year is amazing but the other thing which I think is
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more interesting is that they're going to be putting um so on the on that wafer you've got the CPU the GPU and the
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neural engine that's what's on the chip and we know that um the like the the M1
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chips for example put the the RAM on the board as well it's like the
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integrated RAM the what's the name what's the term this for the RAM unified memory yeah that's it unified memory
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that's it exactly which means that it could it's can be accessed super fast and also um used as video memory which
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is not something that you can it's like the the video the GPU shares it so it
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means that all that memory so you might have like 64 gigs of uh of RAM in your Mac and all of that can be used as as
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video memory uh by the well GPU memory which is insane and one of the reasons
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that the uh the M series chips the Apple chip silicon chips are really really
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good for um AI stuff because they can use you know they can crunch all of that
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um RAM with the GPU but this new chip the A20 is going to be putting the RAM
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on the chip as well straightly onto the same so everything's going to be integrated so that we don't have any
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details on what kind of difference that's going to make cuz I guess we've no idea but that's going to be the thing to watch i think I think that's the
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interesting bit uh why why haven't they done this before it seems like you said
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if the if the MCS chips you know had the SOC design with the integrated memory how come they didn't do that before with
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the um this is using a a new technology from TSMC called wafer level multi-chip
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module technology this this allows for like the different dieseS to be integrated like inside the package as
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well like more directly which I I don't think the uh M series the M series chips
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have like the unified memory architecture but like the actual RAM chip is still separate from the CPU you
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know from the from the M1 this brings both the RAM and the and the chip all together like in the same package and
25:36
under the same under the same die as if they were all like on the same die together so bringing them all together
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will like you know reduce the thermal load increase the efficiency increase the bandwidth uh all those other side
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benefits yeah I think for the for the for the portables like for the uh the phone that's going to be a big big deal
25:55
for exactly power efficiency battery life and things and heat but for the Mac I think it's going to make stuff and the
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iPad as well stuff really really fast there was a rumor like a while ago that
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this this was a while ago and the rumor even back then was like yeah this is years away but eventually this will happen where Apple is looking at um
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dying out or like you know manufacturing the different subp parts of the M series
26:19
chips separately so like they would they develop like the CPU parts in one area the GPU parts in another area separately
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and then merge them all into like the same processor after the fact i think
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probably using a more advanced version of this uh wafer level multi-chip module
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is this the chiplets chiplets tech yeah yeah yeah that's what it's called that's not a joke and then they're going to
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assemble them all in America right yeah definitely that's definitely going to happen
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but but the idea here is that like they would be able to add like you know two CPU modules three CPU modules or you
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know have have a regular series M series chip that's you know like the base model except with like you know six GPUs many
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more than they would have normally and supposedly that's the technology that they could use to you know really make
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the Mac Pro the Mac Pro again you know to actually level it up above everything else because they they wouldn't have to
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make like one gigantic die that's you you know four times bigger than what they normally do they would be
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enormously expensive to manufacture because they could make the four different elements and then just piece it together after the fact imagine a die
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the size of a laser disc inside the inside the thing the thing that amazes me about this this like two nanometer
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process and the the way this miniaturization is going is I think that the transistors that they're they're now
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making are like just a few atoms across it's getting down to the point where you're getting to the real physical
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limits will get into quantum physics soon you know so it really fascinates me
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i was reading about the gates all around technology that they're using now for these transistors and um it blows my
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mind they're really having to redesign it because it's too small to actually get the signal in and out of the transistor so they're having to think of
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new ways for these gates to work and uh yeah so the miniaturization can't go on much longer because we're really getting
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down to atomic levels and like you know countable numbers of atoms that these transistors are made of
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we are we're a little bit a ways away from like actually running into the wall because I mean on a certain level the 2n
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3 nanometer thing is a bit of a marketing term like it's not everything on the chip that is that small they have
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other areas to improve the efficiency but that is to say that you know Oh yeah yeah you I mean it's not so much you get
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to one and that's the bottom of course you could go into even smaller units but that you can't like shrink atoms once
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you get down to the level of you know a handful of atoms then you know you there isn't much you can do to kind of make
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the transistor smaller beyond that point i I think they're saying that after after two nanometers the next level that
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they'll have is just 1.4 like they can't go all the way down to one oh I was I
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was going to ask is that the that's that's the lowest they can come that'll be the next step they have like another few levels after that probably but
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they'll have to switch units once they once they get below one for sure just going to say Graeme there that a handful
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of atoms would actually be quite a lot of atoms well yeah that's a very jolly
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point yes fair point but the the other thing that amazes me about this is the the litho lithographic
29:20
printing process that you need to do these these tiny processes uh I think it's ultra ultra UV right and uh ASML
29:29
this company in the Netherlands that makes the machines that make these chips has a monopoly on that so you you've
29:36
you've got a handful of companies like TSMC and Samsung that that can make this this kind of technology but then there's
29:43
only this one company the Netherlands that can actually make machines that make the technology and um that's now
29:49
become a huge like global bottleneck on on everything like you know that's happened in that happened a few years
29:55
ago with the the uh the glue that was used to put chips together the glue factory that was like one glue factory
30:01
in the world supplying all the glue to put the chips together and and that that burned down and then I don't think it
30:06
was quite fair to compare ASML to a glue manufacturing no it was the glue that was used it was a special glue that was
30:12
used to manufacture chips so it meant that and all of the major chip manufacturers bought their glue from there so this was the problem so there
30:19
was it caused a big shortage this was pre- pandemic I think but I can't remember exactly no it's it and also
30:25
with uh Okay something that isn't relevant records vinyl records all of the uh the the
30:32
the stuff the uh used to make the Yeah but to use to make uh press the masters
30:40
which you then go on to is um it comes from one company and it
30:46
is so kind of delicate that this particular company had you the temp they
30:52
have to superc control the temperatures and depending on the day they have to it's it's it's almost like cooking to
30:57
make the stuff so and they're the only ones that that make this uh this resin that you have to use
31:04
so I don't know so it's like having these kind of it's it's it's definitely when you look at it it could it's
31:10
disaster could be there uh yeah that was it this kind it was a Japanese
31:16
um glue factory anyway sorry this does get at something like at
31:22
at the start of the story that that's bothering me like yeah Apple's going to be changing all of their OS names to you
31:28
know be 26 so that that's easier but you know the the the monic I used to use is
31:34
that the the chip name you know A18 A17 A16 going backwards used to always be in
31:42
line with the name of the operating system because both of those started at one like with the A4 chip on the iPhone
31:48
4 running iOS 4 all of those were in sync and you know the iPhone numbering
31:53
got out of sync but we're still on the A18 chip running iOS 18 well they change
31:58
iOS to 26 instead of 19 and it's like well okay are they going to is but is it
32:04
still going to be the A19 chip then we'll have the A20 chip running what iOS
32:09
27 on the iPhone 27 if they change it but using the three like all of these
32:15
they're they're actually just adding another number when they switch from when they switch from 18 to 26 that you
32:21
need they now need to keep in sync you know when I when I heard this rumor the thing it immediately made me think of
32:27
was Windows 95 because I'm of that age right but like back in the 90s no one no
32:33
one numbered software by year until Microsoft came along with Windows 95 and I think it was like Windows 3.1 before
32:40
that and then they jumped to 95 and I was thinking wow like Apple we've come
32:46
full circle and Apple is now Microsoft and they're now pulling a Microsoft and you know now we're moving to iOS 26 and
32:53
it's a real I don't know it it's a Microsoft move and it always made the the the software seem outdated like
33:00
immediately that the following year oh it's last year's you know it's it gave it that it immediately dated it in a way
33:07
that Yeah I think that's a good point i think it's safer for Apple to do because they do update it every year which
33:14
Microsoft didn't at the time so you'd be still using like Windows 95 in like 1997
33:19
um so and then I I guess that's the reason why they've used next year instead of this year which means you'll
33:25
never be using like last year's operating system or if you are then that
33:30
is a way to publicly shame you into right into upgrading so I think that that is a probably part of the strategy
33:37
as well right that they they don't want people and developers definitely don't want people to be using old operating systems mhm right i quite like the idea
33:45
though actually you know it did make sense especially if you had it across the board so if all the software had
33:50
that same number it would make it a little bit easier to understand because right now it is a mess isn't it jumps around all over the place totally i was
33:57
thinking you know as I was writing the piece on Watch OS this week and I thought this is like it's made for watch
34:03
OS because I mean who actually knows that it's like watch OS 10 that works
34:09
with iOS you know 18 or whatever it's hard to keep track of and if it's watch OS 26
34:15
works with iOS 26 that that is so much simpler that everyone is going to everyone's going to get that so uh you
34:22
as soon as I heard that I thought "Oh yeah i could believe Apple is doing that because it it it actually checks a lot of boxes for them." Yeah yeah yeah i
34:31
mean this isn't a prediction that we'll have to make this week thankfully but do you think in the fall that they're going to introduce the iPhone 26 so that it
34:37
runs iOS 26 with the A26 chip
34:44
who knows i think it's more likely maybe they'll just just call it the iPhone and then they'll just call give it like a
34:49
year model number rather than actually calling it the iPhone like they do with iPads that's so confusing though isn't
34:54
it well yeah yes and and MacBooks even like you know when you go into like the
35:00
support articles on on apple.com and it's like the MacBook 26 with Touch Bar
35:06
and you know it's like they actually had a number for it it would be so much simpler so I really hope they they don't
35:12
take away the number that that works craziness would ensue then it would be iPhone Pro
35:19
parenthesis late 2025 but then that would then have the the current year number whereas the iOS is
35:25
going to use the next year number you know the one with the shiny bevels that were a bit rounded at the edges
35:30
so what in in as of January the 1st 2027 up until you know the end of of
35:37
September 2027 which iOS are you going to be running
35:42
26 right 27 so it starts at the beginning of the year it's not surely it's going to come out in in September
35:49
yeah so the one that comes out in September 2026 what's that going to be will be 27 okay so it's going to be the
35:56
next year so okay so for the last few months so you just have like 3 months you'll have next year's operating system and that's better than having last
36:02
year's operating system for for like you know nine months nine months yeah maybe they could delay maybe they could
36:08
announce the operating system and launch it but then delay that feature the name
36:15
until a point release i do you know I think most people are just really not going to think about
36:20
this much like we we obsess about it a lot but I regular people are just going
36:26
to it's going to be a bit simpler for them it's like which version of watches do I need oh 26 i I just think for most
36:31
people it's going to be simpler and they're not going to think about it and it's the likes of us that are like "Oh big change." But I I don't We start
36:38
hearing about it in June because we're Apple fans but like most people will we'll only get it in September and most
36:43
and it doesn't even push pe people to update until like the December software update anyways at you know 18.2 or
36:51
whenever that will be my brother's kids are obsessed with 6.2
36:56
my brother's kids are obsessed with like iPhone numbers if they see they see your phone say "Oh which iPhone is that?" and you say you know I say iPhone iPhone 12
37:03
because mine's old old and but they are all about like what which one it is and they can usually tell uh you know just
37:12
by looking at it when they what do they say when you tell me you've got a 12 they're like oh they they just walk away
37:19
loser they don't talk to me for anymore my mom has an iPhone 12 that is pretty
37:24
embarrassing Charlie it's the 12 mini I mean oh okay which has got the worst battery life of any any gadget I've
37:30
including my 2018 iPad Pro which is still got way better you know still going strong i Yeah but it's the last
37:38
mini one well I guess the 13 but yeah what am I going to do right yeah the mini is my favorite iPhone it really was
37:43
a great I love it really really nice in fact I went from having big you know I went when the big screen iPhones came
37:49
out i had those for years and then last year I went back to a smaller well sorry the year before I went back to a mini
37:55
and then afterwards I bought a smaller the regular iPhone which I prefer much better i don't like the bigger screen ones anymore no small phone and iPad for
38:02
me that's what I like mhm do you use a mini so So what's your what's your upgrade plan path Charlie what are you
38:07
waiting out for until your until your mini dies when it Yeah until it dies then I'm better not say what I'm going
38:12
to do because it's the cult i'm going to get a free phone running Linux
38:19
running Linux probably Ag Varbis right you're probably loaded on the Vorbis files shut it
38:31
sorry good luck with that
38:39
oh my god i So sorry I can't hang up the phone call i need to figure out how to quit Emacs
38:45
right okay well that's when when are you going to do you going to do that when next year no when this phone dies okay
38:52
i'm going to keep it going i'm going to change the battery when it needs it and this and this and that cuz you know it's still great yeah yeah eventually that's
38:59
true what about What about when they announce that uh iOS 26 doesn't work on it well I won't use I mean it's all
39:07
Apple intelligence anyway so who cares that's fair graham why don't you tell us about watch OS 26 i would love to tell
39:13
you about watch OS 26 as it's allegedly going to be called um yeah so I'm kind
39:20
of excited about this you know I'm a watch fan and a fitness fan and although we don't get so many rumors uh about
39:26
watch OS as we do about iOS I guess because most of the focus is on iOS I
39:31
think there is you know some meat on the bones of a of a decent update for for
39:36
watch OS this year the things you know one of the things we haven't actually talked about much I thought we'd talk about more is Salarium this this
39:44
new glossy glassy new rumored user interface that Apple's going to roll out
39:49
across all of its devices and uh word is I think this is from Mark Gman at
39:55
Bloomberg that this will be coming to watch OS 2 watch OS as well and I'm a little bit surprised by that to be
40:01
honest because watch OS just two years ago with watch OS 10 had a a major
40:07
visual overhaul of of the UI and that that was a a big headache for developers
40:14
you know I I work on a watch app myself and you know there were a lot of changes which coincided with the move from
40:19
storyboards to Swift UI as well and you know so to have another upheaval so soon
40:26
uh is a bit of a surprise but it is maybe not news because as a watch OS developer everything changes every year
40:33
it's a nightmare to develop in this platform because it's constantly changing you know the the features how
40:38
many times have you completely rewritten your app from scratch yeah so change is the only certainty with watch OS but my
40:44
instinct actually is I I do think Apple has sort of the changes have the pace of change with watch OS UI has slowed down
40:52
a little bit in recent releases and I think that they're fairly happy with the layout of things now and you know we
40:58
have those corner buttons and and all of these kind of things the tiled user interface i my instinct is they're going
41:05
to stick with that but we'll just get a bit of a UI gloss and and that that's what the rumors are saying that you know
41:10
they will introduce some of the elements of the cararium UI so I think those like round corner buttons that we've all got
41:17
used to are probably going to have a kind of frosty glassy translucent
41:22
surface and and you know we'll we'll see some of those elements and maybe even the highlights to the bezels when you move your wrist around but that
41:28
ultimately it probably will be a fairly familiar layout to what we what we
41:34
already know um one of the other rumors that they they mentioned is that Apple intelligence features might be coming to
41:39
Apple Watch as well um so they were conspicuously absent last year we didn't
41:45
get any Apple intelligence on Apple Watch which you know Leander might regard as a blessing and um I would have
41:50
some sympathy for that but Apple is not going to leave it that way so what what they're saying according again according
41:56
to Mark German at Bloomberg is that we're going to get uh some Apple
42:03
intelligence features like Genoji and notification summaries on Apple Watch but that the Apple Watch hardware is not
42:10
powerful enough to do this on device so the intensive processing I mean
42:15
intensive processing for Genoji and those terrible summaries imagine but that that intensive processing will be
42:22
done on your iPhone via the kind of wireless watch connectivity and so you
42:28
will be able to now use some of those Apple intelligence features but only if you if you have your iPhone in range um
42:36
I don't know i I I I think a lot of Apple Watch users never
42:41
really don't have their iPhone in range you know they they kind of use their Apple Watch as a second screen to their
42:47
iPhone but I guess for fitness nuts like myself you maybe want to leave your phone at home if you're going for a run
42:54
or a cycle or something like that and just rely on your watch and is that going to bother me that I can't use
43:00
uh Genoji or I can't get a garbled summary of my notification that's more confusing than actually just reading the
43:07
notification no it's not going to bother me personally but you know there we are so to some limited extent Apple
43:14
intelligence is coming the things which uh uh Lewis already touched on Malbury
43:21
and I I think this is interesting to me from from an Apple Watch perspective there's these two projects Malbury and
43:27
Courtz malbury is like these virtual doctors like a a health coach that is
43:33
advising you on lifestyle changes to live a better day and then Courtz is a
43:39
fitness coach um that that is kind of working out tailored training plans for you and and that that courts feature
43:46
might be a a benefit for Fitness Plus subscribers if you subscribe to Fitness
43:51
Plus you might now instead of looking at the all the kind of coaches that we know and love i know Charlie has his
43:58
favorites um now now you'll have these like virtual ones instead i don't know if they're going to fire their team
44:04
maybe they're actually going to fire their team in in in LA and and just have these bots instead to to Maybe they
44:10
could bring back a virtual Dustin then I'd be happy justin who is Justin
44:17
no dustin justin he was the yoga guy yeah yeah one of the yoga guys he still great muscles yeah he was there yeah
44:23
yeah great muscles maybe it's going to be like the This is a deep cut maybe it's going to be that uh like little guy
44:28
with a bow tie in the um in the Apple concept video from the late ' 80s what was it called oh knowledge navigator oh
44:35
I hope it's a knowledge navigator dude that would be excellent didn't he have a British accent i think
44:41
he had a British accent i want him to have a He should be like uh He should be like Batman's butler Alfred i'm thinking
44:47
like Dr clippy yeah so uh you know personally coming at
44:54
this from a fitness perspective I think this is an absolutely terrible idea for years it's it's a terrible idea because
45:01
I just the the data you can get from your wrist is incredibly limited you
45:06
know one of the things I get frustrated about is I'll see lots of people wanting Apple to stick loads more sensors onto
45:13
Apple Watch and the thing is they can't or if they do these are going to be the kind of useless sensors because there's
45:22
not so much going on on your wrist your wrist is I mean the technical term is it's it's peripheral to your body right
45:29
it's like right on the edge of all the systems that keep you alive uh hence you know you can actually lose the end of a
45:34
limb and carry on living i I don't recommend it but it you know it's not jeez if you if you if you look like
45:41
serious runners that want to monitor like their cardio activity they will wear a chest strap you know you want the
45:46
sensor to be proximal to the to the heart if you want to monitor that the quality of the data that you can get
45:52
from your wrist is poor and this is why you know uh some of these features like
45:59
blood pressure and you know for blood pressure you really need a cuff there's nothing you can really do visually to
46:05
reliably ly determine blood pressure and so and then when it comes to running or
46:11
cycling I mean what is a coach is actually at the track watching their athlete athletes run they're designing a
46:18
program based upon deep knowledge of what their athletes can and can't do and what they need and so to to market some
46:25
artificial intelligence thing based upon this really narrow slice of data that Apple Watch can provide as being a
46:32
virtual coach uh I I would be amazed if Apple did this to be honest because they've been a very cautious company up
46:38
until now they've only claimed that Apple Watch helps you live a better day we really going to lurch from that to a
46:44
virtual perhaps you know there are some you know maybe less ambitious coaching because I always found one of the
46:50
problems with getting all this data like say sleep data you know you look at your sleep patterns okay well I I don't
46:55
really know what it tells me you know you look at the data and you go okay yeah I I didn't sleep very well but I already know that or I slept really well
47:01
for the last couple of days what am I going to do about it and and perhaps you know the the coach could come in and say
47:07
"Well um you know you were looking at your iPhone before you fell asleep that's not a good idea." Uh you know
47:13
don't look at any devices an hour before bedtime that kind of stuff or turn on turn on the the True Tone or whatever
47:19
you know there probably is a whole bunch of advice useful advice that it could give you kind of you know low-key not
47:25
you know not not it's not like having um you know Yuan Brunal uh behind you you
47:31
know giving you telling you you've really got to push it now or whatever but I don't know you know there probably is some useful stuff that it could it
47:38
could do i mean there is but it's not without risk is it because if if you are if if
47:43
an AI is is making health and fitness recommendations to a an athlete or a
47:49
patient or we'll call them a user then what if they hallucinate what if they say something which results in a serious
47:55
injury or death and what one of my thoughts here is I could imagine another
48:01
company doing this and getting away with it um I don't you know I think death is a far-fetched scenario but it is
48:06
possible that someone might say "Oh you know I strained a muscle following the advice of my fitness watch virtual coach
48:13
and I want compensation." And you know what happens with Apple and I don't think it's fair
48:18
but Apple just somehow gets so much more focused in this area than other companies i think that's one of the reasons why they're really cautious if
48:24
they make the slightest mistake it becomes a gate and there's a whole media fanfare around it you know like Ben Gate
48:30
and Antenna Gate and and so I to me one of the things I read and I can't
48:35
remember where I read this is there are waring factions within the health and fitness team at Apple some people wanting to be much more ambitious with
48:42
with these things and some people saying "Whoa no let's stick to the science let's not go out there and make
48:48
recommendations or or promises which we can't back up with scientific evidence." And so you know I think there's a bit of
48:54
a battle for how Apple is going to do these things and so I'm really curious to see what they announce next week
49:01
because it will be indicative of of who won one of the things right now is say
49:06
if you look in in the fitness app it will show you trends it will show you oh you're climbing the stairs more you're
49:11
walking less and it will tell you these things but you're right it won't make any recommendation it will be like so
49:17
what what should I do with this information and that I I don't think is a it's an accident i think that's a
49:23
deliberate emission because right up until now Apple has stayed out of the recommendation game you know the only
49:29
things it recommends is really asinine things like stand up 12 times a day or
49:35
you know things which which can't get it into trouble right or half an hour of exercise those are the only things it's
49:41
recommended i I think this if they go in that direction I I to me that's a big shift for Apple and I really hope they
49:48
get it right because I I do agree it could be it could be a great feature but I it feels a very risky territory and a
49:53
bit of a departure if they do it yeah do you know what's the current state of art and like Garmin watches or Android and
49:59
you know uh bike computers i mean I know they they do you can get training plans can't you uh training peaks so I mean
50:05
there's a whole bunch of platforms out there that that give you uh yeah you look at stuff like Gin has
50:11
body battery which which looks at you know which makes recommendations on your training readiness and this is one of
50:16
the things that I I I mentioned in the article on cult of Mac that that Garmin is already doing some of these things
50:22
and so training readiness and body battery which Garmin does is exactly as you say it's making recommendations on
50:28
what you should do based upon the data from your watch that I I do think Garmin can get away with that because they're
50:33
under less scrutiny than Apple if Apple does decide to do something in that territory yeah i I will it be a gate i I
50:41
don't know but you know so far I I don't know but would you trust Apple
50:46
intelligence with your health i mean I I mean not after the Go ahead Charlie i was just going to say after
50:52
the the the pizza glue recipe thing i mean it's that it's that kind of thing isn't it if you believe it i mean that's
50:59
ridiculous and no one's actually going to put glue on their pizza but it was a computer glue that's cuz we know but if it's something you don't know so much
51:04
about and you're not an expert in in this if it was pizza glue then we could call it pizza gate
51:12
well I I used to use training today which is uh supposed to tell you whether you're you're good to go for a training
51:17
session and it uses your heart rate variability uh on your Apple Watch and it's it's supposed to be a fairly robust
51:25
um technique I believe right there's been it's been used forever in in professional training circles but I I
51:31
found it completely useless like it was actually almost always the opposite it would say "Oh you know you're take a
51:38
rest today." But I would feel great and then when it said "Oh you know you're ready to go give it everything you've got." And I would feel like crap um so I
51:45
I found it almost the complete opposite of what you know it was supposed to tell me
51:51
well that that's interesting i I was kind of focusing on the health and safety side but there's the other thing
51:57
is just the negative PR they put this out it makes recommendations people don't agree with they immediately go on
52:02
to Tik Tok and start you know trashing this thing um it could be a PR nightmare
52:07
for them true going back to Apple Watch accuracy it is a coincidence that we just published this piece earlier today
52:14
that I'll link in the show notes uh Apple Watch excels at some fitness tracking measures sucks at others so
52:22
researchers from the University of Mississippi conducted an extensive metaanalysis examining 56 studies that
52:29
compared Apple Watch measurements against these you know gold standard clinical reference tools and they found
52:36
that mean absolute percentage errors of 4 and a.5% for heart rate monitoring and
52:43
8% for step counting and those are within apparently the uh you know
52:48
consumer grade 10% error of fitness devices but then you get to error rate
52:54
when calculating calories burned and the Apple Watch is 28%
53:00
error rate there which is apparent which is three times higher than the
53:05
acceptable error rate for measurement well it's interesting you mentioned the calories as well because not only is there that issue with with accuracy but
53:12
but also increasingly there's you know if you look at apps like Lose It Fitness Pal which do this sort of calculus of oh
53:20
this is how much you've eaten in terms of calorie and this is how much you've worked out in terms of calories and this is your basal metabolic rate in terms of
53:27
calories and you add it up and subtract it and then it will say oh you're in this much calorie surplus or or deficit
53:33
and it will even give you projections on how much weight you should gain or lose based upon that and
53:40
um personal view I I think that that idea of calories in calories out has just created a world of misery for
53:47
people because it's just so simplistic that for the vast majority of people it's just not true and so you you get
53:53
people who are who are doing these like calorie deficit diets and they're practically starving themselves and they're really harming their health and
54:00
they're not losing any weight and so I I really hope because one of the other things that Mark Gurman said was that
54:05
Apple might be getting into the tracking calorie tracking game with food and I personally hope that they don't because
54:10
I think it's just a if you'll forgive the pun it it's a recipe for um it's a
54:17
it's a recipe for uh well for eating disorders and and so I'm hoping to see
54:23
better from from Apple than that than just simplistic calorie counting i want an app where you know visual intelligence you can you can take a
54:30
photograph of a piece of cake you're about to stuff in your face and it'll tell you how many calories in you know you're going to get which I I know
54:36
there's an app out there right now that does that i think that that um that's that really went viral and is really
54:41
doing well uh it's much easier than calorie counting because I used to use Lose It i couldn't stand it every thing
54:47
putting in all the even if I even though I eat the same thing day in and day out it was still a tedious chore but if I
54:53
could take a picture of something before I eat it and then it it'll do all the calculations for me that would be I'd love that yeah you don't think that
54:59
would be helpful maybe you could do I don't think I'm going to get an eating disorder but it might stop me stuffing my face with some cookies you know I I
55:05
think we know you know I think we know basically what we should be eating and sometimes we eat junk and sometimes we
55:14
don't and you know I I think uh everyone knows they should be ill eating like healthy fruit and veg and they should
55:21
and and and and the occasional chocolate candy cakes is going to do no harm and
55:27
you're going to be miserable if you don't enjoy yourself in life that's the point of life right so I I I think it
55:33
it's just like being sensible about what you eat and I I think calories is too simplistic and I I personally I don't
55:38
think it helps i don't know i think people have a lot of misconceptions about the food they eat i mean I I know I certainly did oh rice healthy you know
55:44
I didn't know anything about the glycemic load and you know all the all the carbs it contained years and years I ate rice and thinking it was a you know
55:51
basically a health food brown rice anyway and you know totally ignorant to about to its effects um and protein
55:59
stuff like that you know taking more taking you know being careful being sure to eat enough protein but something I was definitely hadn't paid attention to
56:05
until recently um you know uh I thought that um a sausage egg McMuffin was
56:12
healthy basically whoa I I worry about that stuff like
56:18
blood gluc glucose monitoring as well because I mean I I I think that there are some people who have medical
56:23
conditions where this is really really important for them to monitor obviously if you have diabetes it might be very important to monitor that and having an
56:30
Apple Watch that could do that accurately to a a medical standard so that that you could just wear your Apple
56:37
Watch and you've got all the glucose monitoring that you need that would be awesome for people with diabetes i think
56:42
for everyone else who doesn't really have a medical need to do that I think it'll do more harm than good i think
56:47
people people obsess over these things it creates a mentality of the worried well you know screening for for diseases
56:54
that you don't have can be counterproductive it can sometimes result in overdiagnosis over treatment
57:00
you know and I I think that's the flip side of of of Apple Watch you know if you look at and I'm sure we'll see this
57:05
next week at some point Tim Cook will talk about all the lives that Apple Watch have saved but we never look at
57:11
the other side of what about people that had unnecessary treatments because of Apple Watch you know and and I'm not
57:17
saying that that happens it's just we don't look at that and I think with any health screening intervention it's
57:22
really important to look at all sides of it what are the positive sides what are the negative sides and you know no one I
57:28
haven't heard of any kind of medical authority saying that people without diabetes should be monitoring their
57:35
blood glucose levels and if Apple does introduce that for PE for noni diabetics
57:42
i I just wonder you know is it is it going to have a positive impact or is it actually going to be more harmful to their health you know that that's I
57:50
would I would I would guess that like for the vast majority of people it it would be beneficial but I hear what
57:55
you're saying i mean you know it could easily push people who are possibly you
58:00
know into anorexia or or eating disorders and and and other you know harmful behaviors possibly there's
58:08
definitely I'd say a proportion of people that that would affect yeah right i I do but to be clear I think I I
58:13
totally want Apple to release that feature because for people with diabetes it will be a gamecher you know so I
58:20
think it's a brilliant feature i just hope they they market it in a in in the right way yeah yeah yeah yeah let's move
58:26
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now it's time to get in to our WWDC predictions so for the second time this
1:00:32
year it is time to lay out our Apple event predictions airfon won earlier this year at the non-event group of
1:00:40
random announcements that they had in February but this time one of us will be taking the crown these are the rules we
1:00:47
have agreed on a list of 20 predictions for the event for each one we will vote yes or no whether we think it will
1:00:53
happen votes will be made live during recording we have all of them laid out
1:00:58
in our Google doc here one point will be awarded for each correct guess any
1:01:03
disputes in judgment must be rolled on by Ed Hardy a responsibility he has not been informed of or agreed to i don't
1:01:11
think he even listens to the show so hopefully we don't disagree on anything this is going to give him a big head
1:01:16
there have never been any disputes in scoring in the past ever listeners can submit their own votes using a Google
1:01:23
form which can be found at dgriffinjones.com/servey that'll redirect you right to this form there'll
1:01:29
also be a link in the show notes the highest listener score submitted before the event begins will be honored in the
1:01:36
next episode and I believe's going to be submitting his votes through there just like all of the other listeners of our
1:01:43
show but we have the privilege of uh voting live well can I just say as a
1:01:48
longtime listener to the cult I'm super stoked to finally get to play this game myself you know after listening to you
1:01:55
guys play it and no that is wrong i now finally get to have my say so I'm I'm super excited to be here for this week
1:02:03
it It's both a blessing and a curse when you listen and you're like "Oh I disagree with that i would vote differently." But then you get to the
1:02:08
hard question it's like "Oh I I really have to put something down here." I I listen to this podcast when I'm taking
1:02:14
my dog for a walk and sometimes when I'm walking down La Ramala in in Barcelona and people will shout me hear me
1:02:20
shouting "No Lewis no wrong you're wrong." And then what happens and then
1:02:27
turn out that I was actually wrong or No you're always right Lawrence when are you wrong
1:02:33
okay okay everyone i think I'm gonna have to go out now i've got a new uh rescue puppy in the house he's been here
1:02:39
for a few days and he's been asleep asleep beside me the whole time for this recording and now he's Well now I'm
1:02:46
under attack he's pulling out my headphone cable i think he wants to go out i think
1:02:51
he wants to go out to pee okay actually if you put your predictions in this table at any point later then you can come back yes I still got to take part
1:02:57
all right thank you for joining us see you Charlie bye Charlie bye so it's time
1:03:04
for us to lay down our predictions starting with the software category are we all ready okay prediction number one
1:03:12
Glassy Vision OS inspired redesign across all platforms
1:03:19
uh yes okay I think we're all in agreement there question two all OS version numbers
1:03:27
updated to 26 what do we think yes
1:03:33
all right yeses across the board question three ipad OS gets menu bar and
1:03:40
improved windowing features yes yes yes okay this is boring so far this is do we
1:03:47
believe Mark German sources then it's always a yes well this this this next prediction goes
1:03:53
a little bit above and beyond i think what he said okay ios get also gets free
1:03:59
form windowing on external displays i think Mark German's thing was just that
1:04:04
it would support external displays uh so I am a yes graeme is a yes lewis you vote no what do you think uh you know
1:04:13
I Yeah I don't know man i don't know if they have the wherewithal to pull that off it it's something you can you can
1:04:18
already do it with Android phones right so I feel like it's it's a catchup move for Apple there do you think it's
1:04:24
something anybody even really wants yeah I do yeah it' be awesome to turn your um Yeah to turn your iP mini Mini a mini
1:04:31
Mac mini Mac Mini it'll be It'll be great yeah okay well uh I'm going to
1:04:37
stick with no just to keep things interesting i mean a lot of people like genuinely only have an iPhone and don't
1:04:43
have a computer at all saying that you know oh yeah you can just plug a keyboard in this and plug it into a display and you can use it as if it's
1:04:49
like you know pocket computer that's true yeah that'd be neat so we've heard rumors that iOS is going to get a new
1:04:57
icon shape do we think iOS users will be able to choose a custom icon shape no
1:05:04
that's craziness that's crazy to me well I say yes cuz they're doing a lot more customization now so why not that's what
1:05:11
I'm thinking too you could have little star- shaped app icons won't that be great maybe it'll be like kind of like
1:05:17
on the lock screen how you can pick like the thickness of the font of the clock maybe you'll be able to to have a slider
1:05:23
where you can pick the roundness of the icons you can either have them be completely circular or like slightly round or very
1:05:29
round or not round at all i feel like this is the difference of the Apple approach though that Apple decides Apple
1:05:35
has designers who make decisions for you because users have terrible taste
1:05:40
mhm that's always Well that used to be the way i don't know recent things have
1:05:46
started in the right but I I can't imagine they would make the app icon
1:05:51
yeah no no no no no i think I think the shape of the icon shows that it's an app
1:05:57
right and that that square with the rounded corners tells us it's it's an app and they they introduced the kind of
1:06:03
circle app icons i guess for a while they were in Mac OS and then they they're in watch OS they're in vision OS
1:06:10
um I I could imagine them moving across the board to circular but then they would need to establish that as the
1:06:15
design pattern that apps are circular i think it would really undermine the usability if what an app looked like
1:06:21
became really inconsistent on on a single platform i I just don't think Apple would do that next one game Center
1:06:30
reinvented as Apple Games
1:06:36
i'm going yes for that and can I add a kind of an extra bonus point that they rename Apple Arcade Apple Games Plus you
1:06:44
see I'm I'm voting no against this i figured I would trap a few people with it but I'm voting no because I think
1:06:51
they're not going to call Apple Games i feel like they've built up the Apple Arcade brand and if anything they might
1:06:58
bring back the Game Center app and just rename it Apple Arcade and go the other direction and rename Apple Arcade apple
1:07:03
Arcade Plus but has Apple Arcade been very successful i I just get the impression
1:07:09
that after the news app it's the it's like one of the least popular of Apple services
1:07:16
um I don't know i I mean I I play I have Apple Arcade but just because I have the Apple one bundle but I I think people
1:07:22
understand what it is i mean it has the the the dedicated tab in the app store that no one looks at but
1:07:28
I I I think those if you look at like Xbox and and uh PlayStation and this
1:07:33
game subscriptions is huge and Apple's just not doing it well at the moment they don't have these AAA titles and so
1:07:39
I I I have to think that if they're if they're digging in this area they're they're wanting to create a much better
1:07:46
subscription package than what they currently offer m and so so yeah you
1:07:51
could say yeah they've built arcade as a brand but it's a sort of dud product so they might actually think it's great to
1:07:57
relaunch it with a new name because we distance ourselves from before and you
1:08:03
know have a you know they get some really big game developers for some AAA titles to launch Apple Games Plus with
1:08:10
hm i mean the other theory that I have is that they might just uh keep Game Center as it is and just like remake the
1:08:16
Game Center app and just continue using the name Game Center without changing anything at all who knows next question
1:08:24
next version of Mac OS called Mac OS Tahoe griffin you said no wow i do say
1:08:32
no i don't Tahoe it just doesn't smell right to me because there's the there's the Chevy Tahoe and I know yeah this is
1:08:38
an operating system and not a computer but like Apple doesn't like to you know fight with different brands it sounds
1:08:45
like It sounds like a slur as well there's also a Seo There's a Sequoa though isn't there a truck called a Seoia oh yeah the Toyota Sequoa that's
1:08:53
right you don't like Tahoe because it sounds too much like Taco what we're waiting for really though is Mac OS
1:08:58
Turlock i mean Apple has gone with some pretty stupid names for Mac OS before big su alapitan like but some something
1:09:07
about taco it just doesn't smell right to me I can't I can't put my finger on it the other point that I don't think you mentioned this in the uh you know
1:09:14
description of this or whatever when we were talking about the news story but they were saying like they were pointing out German pointed out that it you know
1:09:20
Tahoe is known for its it's like extremely clear water and reflections
1:09:25
and things like that and so in that way it kind of goes with the you know supposedly glossy UI changes everything
1:09:32
gets So I think it makes sense except except the UI is going to be cloudy which is exactly what Tahoe isn't
1:09:39
you know I was chatting to Griffin about this earlier and he was saying this is going to be a frosted glass user interface and I wasn't it going to be
1:09:46
slo glossy and Griffin you said no because then you won't be able to see the buttons in front of the UI behind so
1:09:52
it's actually going to be cloudy so I mean is this is like an industrially polluted Lake Tahoe in some future
1:09:58
dystopia when the park service is is like shut own
1:10:03
it It's so rare that like marketing names leak like as virtually none of the
1:10:08
other Mac OS names have ever leaked before so it's like well why is this one leaking now and you know I really hope you're right it would be so cool if Mark
1:10:15
Gur got that wrong i would be really you know it would just be fun because he's never wrong so
1:10:22
next question support dropped for all Intel Max
1:10:30
yeah I'm going to go no too no Leander you think no tahoe too huh
1:10:36
shock just for fun i don't want to say the same thing as everyone else
1:10:43
graham you're saying yes i do you know I I I I'm being a bit bllythe there because I haven't really looked into how
1:10:49
old this equipment is but I just think it it seems like about time for it to be retired doesn't it
1:10:55
yeah they they've already exceeded the the time that they they spent supporting Power PC oh really okay I'm going to say
1:11:01
yes then i'll change my vote ah you can't change your vote you've already put it down
1:11:06
oh no i'm not I'm not going to win the paper crown and and the other the other clue would be that this is a new UI
1:11:13
which is responsive to movements and stuff like that so it's going to be very heavy this UI you know like when they
1:11:19
when they introduced Aqua and that made Mac OS 10 feel sluggish to begin with and remember when they wanted to
1:11:25
introduce uh what was that weird sort of desktop thing they added to iPad or stage manager and originally they wanted
1:11:31
to limit stage manager to only the very latest hardware because they wanted all this visual bling in it and what we're
1:11:37
hearing is that um this carium UI is going to have a lot of visual bling and
1:11:43
that in itself would be a reason to deprecate legacy hardware like Intel hardware
1:11:49
i mean yeah but I mean there is already like a lot of progressive blurs and translucency in Mac OS like I don't
1:11:55
think you know the Intel Mac Pro is going to be incapable but if every bez if every bezel around every button the
1:12:01
highlights move with the accelerometer motion that you know doing that stuff
1:12:07
it's going to eat some CPU that's true that's true i don't know i I just think
1:12:12
it personally it might not be time yet next question here's a tricky one vision OS gets over five minutes of screen time
1:12:20
oh god I hate these kinds of questions i'm gonna go no too
1:12:28
i'm going to say yes i think they've got they've got a lot to show with Vision OS you know this is this is the first time
1:12:34
they'll have a full 12 months between major versions and I feel like they've
1:12:39
probably got like a lot of features backed up for it i mean personally when I use my Vision Pro I'm like you know a
1:12:44
lot of these things still feel kind of rudimentary like they the the home screen still only lets you have like a
1:12:50
single giant list of icons and you can put them in folders like iOS 4 there's
1:12:56
no app library the there's virtually no window management stuff i just feel like they've got a lot of stuff to do there i
1:13:02
I think that they have i just and and I I absolutely do not think that Apple has given up on on Vision OS and Vision Pro
1:13:09
and I'm sure there are amazing new products and new hardware coming um I think that they they this isn't the time
1:13:15
for that i think when they've got a hardware release to announce they're they're going to talk about it again but
1:13:20
my instinct here is they they will talk about it but much more in terms of all these great new features that the other
1:13:27
platforms are getting we're bringing those to Vision OS 2 that that's what I think
1:13:33
okay next question in the Apple intelligence section shorter than the rest yeah weird how
1:13:41
that happened this is an evil one apple
1:13:46
reintroduces a smarter agentic Siri i'm going to say yes i think
1:13:52
yes surprisingly split on this one leander and I are yes lewis and Graham are nos well I think they need to and
1:13:59
they will i just don't think that they'll be ready right i don't think they're going to write you know a whole
1:14:04
bunch more checks that they're you know quote asses can't cash yeah they they
1:14:10
don't want they don't uh want to make John Gruber write another nasty piece about them so I think that they're going
1:14:16
to be more measured in their promises this year well they've eded him out now haven't they yeah isn't that rude mhm i
1:14:23
went to one of those uh talk show live things one time with Federigi and Jazri it was awesome and to think that they
1:14:30
just uh lashed out at him and and like "Oh we're not going to let anybody go talk." That's I mean that's not very
1:14:38
classy i just feel like they can't say nothing they're they're probably going
1:14:44
to say something and they might they might even show it off and say explicitly say this time we're still
1:14:49
working on this this isn't ready yet but you know they might still show it off i don't know maybe they'll make a joke
1:14:54
about it you know like they'll put up put Siri you know still as smart as ever
1:14:59
i mean they have they they do occasionally poke fun at their screw-ups it's possible yeah i I think that what
1:15:07
they promised last year they will talk about again this year and it and they will actually have it in the in the beta that they ship because this is something
1:15:13
that developers need to support with their intentions and stuff right so I think there will be material for
1:15:19
developers about the new Siri and they may well be included in in the beta but
1:15:24
so when I'm saying no it's I do think that there will be last year's Siri will actually be in the beta that developers
1:15:31
get next week i I think um but I don't think there will be anything beyond that there won't be any of this
1:15:38
Siri i I don't even know what I don't know what that is i haven't really got my head around that yet but I I think we
1:15:44
we we will finally get what was promised last year that's what I think okay next
1:15:49
question redesigned Health app adds AI powered recommendations
1:15:55
can I put I hope not that's not a choice Graeme unfortunately
1:16:01
that'd be that'd be the case for a lot of these honestly if that was a question
1:16:07
I'm going to say no uh because it was a small detail as a part of that story that they might be working on it but it
1:16:14
probably won't be ready yet until next year you're right yeah right might be delayed yeah but I think they might
1:16:19
mention it i I mean the thing is if it's interesting because that that as a question will be indicative of of this
1:16:26
kind of Apple writing checks it can't cash if they've got this feature which they do plan to ship in the next 12
1:16:33
months but it's maybe not till the end of the year or you know next spring are they going to talk about it like they
1:16:39
did last year or will they just keep this year and not say anything until they know they can ship it that's true i
1:16:45
mean they they haven't been afraid to announce something and then explicitly say yeah this is coming later yeah i mean because they got burned last year I
1:16:51
think yeah they're they're likely to be more conservative this year i think that's a good point next question
1:16:56
airpods get live translation yes just cuz I want it i want that so
1:17:02
badly my Spanish is terrible catalan is probably even worse isn't it
1:17:08
oh Catalan even worse but Apple doesn't support Catalan it's it's the bane of my life i mean yeah that that's the other
1:17:15
thing that they might support live translation for all like 12 languages that they have in the app
1:17:21
yeah and finally they'll be able to translate UK English to US English
1:17:26
next question in the hardware section new Mac Pro with M3 Ultra
1:17:36
i'm going to say no i don't think we're going to see any hardware at WWDC okay i put down yes because Mac Pros
1:17:44
have typically been introduced at the the event and um it's kind of weird that they're still selling a Mac Pro with an
1:17:50
M2 in it next question new studio display with Thunderbolt 5 and prootion
1:17:58
i would love that because I want to buy that
1:18:03
i I I I just think they've got so much software stuff to talk about i reckon it'll be a software only thing yeah me
1:18:09
too also a no new Smartome display announced huh this
1:18:16
rumored product that they've reportedly had in the oven for a while i'm going to say yes just cuz I want that as well i
1:18:21
think that would be awesome if if they were going to announce any hover I think it would be that because
1:18:26
you can't really announce Home OS without saying what it's going to run on
1:18:31
so yeah right as soon as as soon as I typed no that's what I thought if they do announce this home OS thing then oh
1:18:39
well too late yeah that's true that's true i guess I guess the rumor was that like they they
1:18:46
have this thing ready but they're waiting until the smarter Siri is ready to ship and I did vote yes on on them at
1:18:51
least announcing that again but I don't know it doesn't feel like doesn't feel like it's time for that yet and I'm I'm
1:18:56
sure it keeps Tim Cook up at night knowing that there's a warehouse full of these things that they can't ship
1:19:02
you know I I think that if the if they were when they ship this this like new
1:19:08
home OS device with a screen if they do I think it would be huge news from an Apple perspective and I think there
1:19:14
would have been something in the tease invite i think because the tease invoice is just so much focusing on Solarium and
1:19:21
the new UI that I think you know it's like
1:19:27
I I'm just not getting home vibes from that from that invite that's fair they I
1:19:32
guess we should mention uh that they they added a tagline to it earlier this week called sleek peak
1:19:39
oh peak do you do you think is it going to be another mountain maybe not a lake maybe a mountain
1:19:46
oh yeah next question any other hardware announced nope
1:19:53
nope all right we're all news pretty simple is this really a rumor event opens with
1:20:00
silly light-hearted video really event opens with a silly light-hearted video a lot of people are thinking well
1:20:05
you know Apple's developer relations are not great right now that would probably be a little illreceived if they did that
1:20:12
come on really what do we think need a little fun starter i I never find those
1:20:18
things funny they're so zany and and I I don't get them like jokes about Craig
1:20:23
Federigi's hair or Eddie Q's karaoke i just It leaves me cold i don't get it
1:20:29
this is Yeah I I don't find it funny either the only one I did think was funny was that Larry David video that
1:20:34
they didn't run over the Siri well it was about he was like the he was the
1:20:40
Larry David played the head of the Apple editorial board deciding or the app store he was the head of the app store
1:20:46
deciding what apps got into the app store and it was a very problematic Larry David cur cur enthusi style video
1:20:53
and I'm amazed Tim Cook actually ever commissioned that because Larry David is going to push
1:20:59
things as far as he possibly can and he really did and he pushed it way outside of Tim Cook's comfort zone and they they
1:21:05
never ran the occasionally it's uploaded to YouTube and it's on there for like a week until Apple takes it down again oh too bad what about the one where he's in
1:21:12
his car and he's swearing at Siri was that on Saturday Night Live that was actually No that was actually part of
1:21:17
Kirby enthusiasm oh okay i've reenacted that almost weekly ever
1:21:23
since seeing it that's one that everyone can relate to next question apple plays a trailer for
1:21:31
the F1 movie yeah that's got to be they They're putting a big push behind this
1:21:38
i always say yes on those when I'm saying no this time so they'll probably do it oh look this is where I win look
1:21:43
cuz everyone said no this is where I win what does the trailer have to be a
1:21:48
trailer versus for example when they do the the kind of sexy product video showing the new version of iOS and at
1:21:55
one point it will show a movie playing and it might be a clip of of the F1
1:22:00
movie does that count no um that's probably something we would have to ask
1:22:06
Ed Hardy but I I think I was thinking Ed Hardy will determine that he's the Supreme Court of Cultter if they just
1:22:12
mention it or like have like a promotional image on screen that wouldn't count but even if they played like a so-called teaser trailer I I was
1:22:20
thinking that's that would so I don't know i guess we'll we'll have to we'll have to we'll have to determine that
1:22:26
next question apple namerops another big game coming to the Mac
1:22:33
oh god so tiresome okay we're all yeses that's
1:22:38
hilarious what What do you think it's gonna be this time are any of us tuned in gamers
1:22:44
tic tac toe letter press two
1:22:50
okay last question the event runs over 1 hour 45 minutes
1:22:58
yes dang it i keep getting burned by this one too i'm going no
1:23:04
i'm going no leander's going yes yes yes yes yes yes yes
1:23:11
still make it shorter than this podcast
1:23:16
okay well Griffin's gonna edit edit it down to a snappy 43 minutes
1:23:23
well our listeners can submit their own uh answers to these questions if they
1:23:28
dare at dgriffinjones.com/servey link is in the show notes we will announce the winners
1:23:33
next week and um of course WWDC is next Monday how how are we how are we feeling
1:23:40
overall straw pole i'm already tired
1:23:46
i feel like there's there's you know been a lot of negative vibe around Apple over the past few weeks and I'm really
1:23:53
hoping that WWDC turns things around for them you know I think they they need
1:23:58
some good news and uh I I think WWDC may well provide it and I I well I think
1:24:03
yeah that the software that changes the the UIs that unified across all the
1:24:09
different platforms it sounds really exciting and I read a really interesting thing this week actually it was um that remember that post Lewis that we were
1:24:15
talking about oh right yeah from Sebastian Dwith um he is the developer of um Halid app and on his blog had a a
1:24:24
really interesting breakdown about how the UI might look and how it might function and it was really illuminating
1:24:31
i learned a whole bunch of stuff that I didn't know before and um it sounds quite exciting it's it's a in in a way a
1:24:38
little bit of a return to skuorphism you know bringing back some physicality to the UI and um it sounded you know it was
1:24:45
a really interesting breakdown and it made me much more excited about it than than I felt before I read it
1:24:51
his mockups look really brilliant if it looks something like that I'm going to be super happy yeah yeah yeah there's
1:24:56
been all kinds of crazy mockups have been floating around and you know some of them really are ugly i mean it was somewhat crazy looking um and there was
1:25:03
an interesting mockup actually a couple of days ago i don't know did you ever get a chance to look at that Louis i think uh sorry Griffin i don't It showed
1:25:09
a mockup of a of a glassy like button that actually reacted to a a light someone was moving a lamp around and I
1:25:16
thought how the hell are they doing that and of course then I realized well it they can't unless they have some special sensor and I don't know you know uh
1:25:24
iPhones have a light sensor don't they or a proximity sensor maybe they could but definitely you couldn't do it on
1:25:30
Apple Watch and you definitely couldn't do it on um you know uh maybe a camera
1:25:35
would work i don't know maybe a camera would work right you know a frontfacing camera would could be used for that anyway it looks amazing they could go
1:25:41
back to like iOS 6 where they would fake it just by like you know using the uh gyroscope on your phone is like when you
1:25:48
wiggle it around it'll just move the light source and it'll just always imagine the light source as being above you yeah and that could kind of fake it
1:25:55
yeah yeah but that would give them the you know the the the requisite sort of
1:26:00
physicality that they're going for so that would work if even if it didn't track the ambient lighting around it but
1:26:06
yeah it looks it looks really exciting i'm I'm really really excited to see it i love a new interface i'm overall like
1:26:12
excited about the iPhone not excited to run the betas because that's just a my
1:26:17
least favorite three months of the year and also I would say excited but scared for Mac OS because Mac OS is where I do
1:26:25
my work and I mean Allan Dy has not instilled confidence in me that he's going to make the Mac better i'll just
1:26:32
put it at that but excited overall I'd say so i think that about wraps it up that's
1:26:39
all the cult we have for you all this week but the fun continues lewis Wallace is on Twitter at Lewis Wallace leander
1:26:46
Kenny is at LCNY and you can read his daily musings in the cult of Mac today newsletter which you can find at
1:26:54
newsletters.cultmack.com thanks to our very special guests this week graham Bower is on blue sky at Graham Bower
1:27:00
charlie Sell is on Masttodon at Mr charlie and you can hear them together on the Apple Core podcast i understand
1:27:08
this is a very timely episode of the show coming out sometime soon in indeed with with yourself as a guest i I might
1:27:14
not mention that is right i am on Masttodon and Blue Sky at DGriffin Jones and you can join
1:27:20
the week-long discussion with me and the other govves in the cult club discord by going to
1:27:27
support.theultcast.com the cult club is honestly one of the best places to be during the Apple event because we'll be chatting live during the keynote so be
1:27:34
sure to get your ticket inside at support.theultcast.com you can read all of our WWDC coverage at cult of Mac it's
1:27:42
a website and we're on social media platforms as well this has been the Cultcast the best 30 plus minute Apple
1:27:48
conversation you're going to hear all week long new episodes of the Cultcast come out every Thursday night i want to thank everyone for listening for
1:27:54
watching and we will see you all next time have a great weekend see you
1:28:02
i didn't hear a time come on do that in post he just doesn't do
1:28:09
that it's fun it's weird i I try and just weird weird whistling always comes
1:28:15
out [Music]

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